Old Den
The other week, watching Millwall v Blackburn Rovers in an FA Cup quarter final from The New Den, I heard the commentator mention that Millwall were playing in dark blue as homage to their origins, in that workers from Dundee had set up Millwall Rovers in1885. That got me thinking, as, although Dundee indeed play in dark blue jerseys, the Dens Park club (Den-Dens, surely another connection!) only date from 1893. Nonetheless, Dundee FC was formed by a merger of East End (who played in blue and white hoops in 1885) and Old Boys, who had a reported dark blue jersey in that same year Millwall Rovers started out.
Millwall Badge
The official Millwall site states, under a heading ‘From humble beginnings’, that
Millwall Rovers were formed in the summer of 1885 by workers at Morton’s Jam Factory on the Isle of Dogs. The majority of the workers at the factory were of Scottish extraction and consequently blue and white became the club’s colours.
So it must be true: Scots, perhaps Dundee fans, formed Millwall, this underlined by the Scottish lion badge. And of course, Dundee, as used to be taught in schools, was famous for ‘the three J’s’, Jam, Jute and Jourmalism.
Yet, maybe it’s not all as straightforward.
For a start, there was no such establishment as Morton’s Jam Factory. Although Morton’s originated in Scotland, in Aberdeen, making of jam was an extremely seasonal endeavour in the 19th century. Morton’s actually made preserved fish, meat, soup, vegetables, fruit, sausages, ham, bacon, cheese, confectionery, jams, jellies, marmalades, candid peel, pickles, sauces, potted meats, and potted fish, oatmeal, barley, spices, pepper, salt, curry powders, bottled essence, tea, cocoa, flour, nuts, custard powder and hair oils. Over and above this, jam was usually made by women workers in the plant, and preserved in ceramic pots rather than tin. Why is this important? The men in Morton’s were mostly tinsmiths, and didn’t work with jam. Further, none of Millwall’s founders were Aberdonian, according to http://www.millwall-history.org.uk/origins.htm, from where much of this information was gleaned.
Obed Caygill, a famous early player, was South London born in 1870 and played as Millwall’s goalkeeper till 1894 when he broke his leg and consequently gave up football. He said of the founding of Millwall, in an interview for ‘English Sports’: “A few tinsmiths, engaged on the island were the founders.”
Original 1930’s Badge
Next: the lion badge. Millwall are known as the Lions, yet this name was only adopted when they reached the FA cup semi final as a non league giant killing side in 1900. And the lion badge did not appear on the jerseys until the 1930’s. So the Scottish lion rampant connection can be completely discounted.
Here is a list of players and officials associated with Millwall Rovers in 1885: Duncan Hean, (Capt) George Oliver, J Reekie, Patrick Holohan, Owen Elias, Henry Gunn, Tom Jessup, Joe Potter, Fred Northwood, John Rowland, James Crawford, Harry Butler, George Syme, Jasper Sexton, and the First Chairman of the Club: Irish International and Local GP Dr William Murray-Leslie. Not many Scottish sounding players there.
Of course, there’s no one left to quiz on the origins of the Millwall club, but there’s enough evidence to suggest that it’s a lazy assumption to take for granted the dockland club was formed by Scots, due to the club colours and a lion on the badge.
Millwall Athletic 1894
borussiabeefburg 
Hi
Anyone out there able to comment on a player – surname of Carlo, possibly 1920s..?
John Robertson, a native Aberdonian, ……………during his time in London he became one of the founder members of Millwall FC.
[ from http://www.afc.co.uk/articles/20120222/redmatchday-interview_2212158_2620672 ]. John was my great-uncle.
“The first Chairman of the Club was Irish International and local GP Dr William Murray-Leslie” – he may have played for Ireland, but he was Scottish born and bred. He and his brothers were born in Knockbain, Ross-shire and were educated at Edinburgh University.
You can’t say that none of the players in the photo are Scottish because you think that they’re names aren’t Scottish-sounding! That’s ridiculous. You have no solid evidence in this article. Absolutely none.
Aye, it’s true that “you can’t say that none of the players in the photo are Scottish because you think that they’re names aren’t Scottish-sounding!”
It is ridiculous: however, that wasn’t said anywhere in the article.
Also, all Millwall fans know why the Lion is on the badge as it’s well documented that we used to be The Dockers before the famous FA Cup runs. My understanding about the blue and white kit was that these are the colours on the Scottish flag! Aberdeen and Dundee do get thrown into the mix a lot but my understanding was that our kit was linked to the Scottish flag rather than another teams’ colours.
In London in the 1880s Football was not as popular as Rugby. It was much more popular in Scotland. Scots migrants formed football clubs in order to carry on their past time in London. Millwall were (BB edit: ‘not’?) the only side where Scots migrants were prominently involved in their founding – so too were Arsenal and Old Castle Swifts who were the predecessor side to West Ham.
“Not many Scottish sounding players there” is a strange comment – there are several Scottish surnames on that list.
Those two names do look Scottish, Murray-Leslie was a Scot and some of the other names can be Scottish names too. But we don’t need to be guessing where these players were from because Millwall historians have already established that Scots were involved in the club from the very start. What’s more, Scots held very prominent positions at Millwall from those early days for over 50 years. That led to a lot of Scots being recruited to play for Millwall through those connections. The reason I came across the link was through being puzzled by the number of young players from Clackmannanshire who went to Millwall in the early 20th century. The reason, explained by the good people of the Millwall Museum, was that the Millwall trainer was from the east of Scotland and recruited players on trips home. They also told me that on Millwall’s move to the Den in 1910 that they were presented with a Brass Lion with a Gaelic inscription on it. Now it’s clearly not an equivalent of Celtic, but it is a fact that Scots were prominent at Millwall from the start. As such, whilst it’s certainly not as straightforward as “Scots formed Millwall”, the heading “Scottish Millwall Myth” is probably more inaccurate.
Thanks Donald. It may be that the folk in Millwall Museum are good people, and well informed in a football sense. But if, in the early 20th century, the Millwall trainer was from the east of Scotland, why would he search for players from Clackmannanshire, which isn’t in the east? Nonetheless, thank you for your information.
Its A DUNDEE Club, DOCKERS!!! nuff said! No one cares they hate us!!! lol
Have another look at the map. It’s not too far from the east, is it? Indeed, Alloa’s status as a Forth port was absolutely crucial to the town. In the case of the trainer, he was believed to be from Dunfermline, a whole 15 miles from Alloa. Worth noting too that Alloa played in the Fife FA rather than Stirlingshire FA until the turn of the century. As such, perfectly natural that he would look to the Wee County (among other places) for players. He was just one of the prominent Scots at Millwall though, there were others.
Cheers again, Donald. Alloa is only 6 miles as the crow flies from my location. It’s in Central Scotland. However, looking back at my original article, I was questioning the Millwall/Dundee link, which, to me, is very sketchy. I’ve no doubt Millwall had a large share of Scots involved in their genesis, like many clubs in England to varying degrees. Nonetheless, any input is very welcome, and I thank you for your contribution.
The dark blue of Millwall matches exactly the colours of the Scottish national team nothing to do with Dundee FC. National team colours and national team badge no bigger origin to their roots than that. It would seem some of the modern day descendants, supporters and detractors of historical fact are somewhat embarrassed rather than proud of Millwall’s Scottish roots (hence the copying of Chelsea fc’s grotesque rampant lion). Millwall was founded by Scots get over it.
Gary, see Richard Edmunds’ comments below: it appears guys with an Irish background, who had come to London via Scotland, were heavily involved in the founding of the original Millwall FC.
My grandfather aged 88, is the grandson of Mary Holohan. He has memories of his great uncle Patrick Holohan who died when he was 17. He was the true founder of the club. Patrick and Mary’s parents came to Dundee from Leitrim, ireland to escape the famine in 1849. They had tough times there, so Pat and his best friend Dvaid Hean trained up as Tinsmiths, and shortly after Pat’s 21st Birthday, in March 1878, headed down to London to find work. They were both took on by J.T.Morton, the Preserved Provisions Manufacturer, established in Rosemount Aberdeen City in March 1849, by Londoner John Thomas Morton, who in 1872 had opened his first London Cannery on the site of a disused Oil Works, at West Ferry Road, Millwall, Isle of Dogs. Patrick and David are living together opposite the factory at 72 Manilla Road, Poplar on the 1881 Census.
Patrick was an avid sports fan, and began playing Saturday football with J.T. Mortons work team which, being mostly made up of Scottish workers, relocated from the original Aberdeen Plant, including Mary’s future husband, my great-grandad Alec Gordon. They called themselves the ‘Iona’ and wore the Blue and White of Scotland. This team was initially little more than an informal kick about squad, and often had trouble making up numbers.
The following year David Heans younger brother Duncan ( 6 years younger than Patrick) came down to London to join them, having followed their example and trained as a tinsmith. He was as football mad as Patrick, and persuaded him they should together start up a ‘proper team’ and enter the local leagues. They recruited players from a local pub and working mens club they used, ‘The Islander’ of Tooke Street, run by Irishman Maurin Sexton. His 17 year old son Joseph became the teams first secretary, they reused the same kit and colours of the previous works team, but rechristened the new team as the ‘Millwall Rovers’. That was Patrick’s choice as he was also the founding member of the ‘Millwall Rovers Cycling Club’ a year earlier.
The new name also better reflected the more cosmopolitan mix of the founding 13 players, eight were native Londoners, four were Scots and one a Welshman. Only one other, Harry Butler, was also employed at Mortons. Butler was a packer in the Tea Department, not a tinsmith like Pat and Duncan.. The rest were local men drawn from a wide variety of occupations, including a Slater, a Greengrocer, a Plumber, an Engineer, an Accountant, a Bricklayer, and two local Dock Workers. The Dockers became the new clubs knickname as it was the most common occupation of their local followers on the isle of Dogs.
They found a sponsor in local Scottish Doctor William Murray-Leslie, who found them their first homeground on disused land near his surgery at Glengall Road, a stonesthrow from The Islander Pub and Mortons. The team played their first game in the Autumn of that year 1885 in Leytonstone. They lost heavily, but it was nevertheless a learning curve and was followed by an unbroken string of wins. Their very first victory was greeted by a firework display and street party on their return to the Islander Pub showing the widespread support the team enjoyed from the local population from the very start. At their first New Year Party December 31 1885, Patrick led the celeberations playing ‘Auld Lang Syne’ on his violin, with his team mates accompanying him with singing.
The team went on to win the East End Cup two seasons later in 1887. Patrick, being one of the older players, was only a regular for the first season, and was happy to step aside for the young bloods as his team grew. He carried on following them avidly as they went from strength to strength and through their many sucesses in the years to come. They moved to a new ground and changed their name to Millwall Athletic in 1894. Sadly Duncan Hean died that year, at just 31 from an injury picked up playing for the club.
Two years later, in 1896 Pat was sued by his fiancee Alice Gunn for breach of promise. 16 years his junior, Alice was the younger sister of William Henry Gunn, one of Pat’s fellow 13 founding members of Millwall Football Club. She claimed Pat regularly stood her up to go and watch Millwall every Saturday and had broken off the wedding three times already. Alice won the case, which was reported on the front pages of The Times with the headline ‘Potted Jam and Poetry’ which shows even then Mortons was commonly assosciated with the potted Jams they made, though as you point out this was just a small part of the real business. Pat, who was by now manager of a rvial provisions factory in Sibly Road, East Ham, went bankrupt as a result, going into liquidation and administration.
In the newspaper reports Patrick expressed the wish to remain single until his mother passed away. She is reported as wishing him to marry a certain ‘Scot Lassie’, and threatening to burn her life insurance policy if Patrick instead honoured his engagement with Alice Gunn.A month after his mothers death, at their home on the Millwall docks, Limehouse, in October 1899, Patrick returned to Dundee where he was finally married, aged 42, to the ”Scot Lassie’ Elizabeth O’Farrel, a Pawnbroker, in St Andrews Roman Catholic Church, on the 43rd Anniversary of his parents marriage in the same church.
He remained devoted to the club he had founded and left both his home in Liemhouse and his job in East Ham to cross the water with them to South London when they relocated in 1910. He was by then widowed, and had recently lost his only daughter too to childhood illness. He remained single the rest of his life.
Like Duncan Hean, many of the original Millwall 13 met early and tragic ends. One missed his footing in fog, whilst working on the Millwall docks, fell in the Thames and and drowned in 1900. Pat died a few months short of his 90th birthday, in 1947, in Nazareth House, Iselworth, a Catholic Orphanage and Convent which provided residential Nursing Care for elderly Catholics. He was the last but one of the surviving Millwall originals.
Great clarification and comments, Richard. Thank you.
Although the above is interesting, it in flies in the face of two books on the club, most notably Millwall: Lions of the South by James Murray. Holohan’s role has been played up a bit, as has the claim there were only four Scotsman in the team, which is contradicted by Murray’s book and public records of the time. It’s also worth noting that the webmaster of the Millwall History Files is something of an iconoclast, who has gone to great lengths to (unsuccessfully) try and debunk the fact that the club was formed by Scotsman and completely overlooks the fact that the club was saved by a lad from Aberdeen three years after the team played it’s first game. His comments about the badge should also be taken with a pinch of salt as the manager who introduced it stated it was inspired by the Scottish heraldic lion.
Cheers, William: thanks for that.
One chap not mentioned is William Henderson, who was from Aberdeen and was the hon. sec in the early days and was the mainstay in the club’s affairs. He later became a shareholder when Millwall became a limited company. l would imagine his input was huge from the start. A great debate, however.
“Not many Scottish sounding players there”
Well, how many is many? At least Duncan Hean, J Reekie, Henry Gunn, James Crawford, George Syme and Dr William Murray-Leslie sound very Scottish to me. Maybe your ear isn’t too attuned?
Reekie and (Irish internationalist) Murray-Leslie are the only two, Syme at a push. Maybe your ear isn’t too attuned 😉
Here was my original research list, feel free to Google if you wish:
Hean Netherlands
Oliver French
Reekie Scottish
Holohan Irish
Elias Hebrew
Gunn Norse
Jessup Norman
Potter English/Neths/German
Northwood English
Rowland Norman
Crawford Old Englah
Butler English/Norman
Syme English/Scottish border
Sexton Anglo-Saxon
Murray-Leslie Scottish
Your ‘origins’ of the players are risible. Are you seriously suggesting that these players’ nationality is based on their surnames? Gunn is a common North of Scotland surname. As is Crawford, as is Syme. How many ‘Normans’ were playing football in the UK in the late 19th century?
I used to attend Millwall matches in the 1970s and the local fans were in no doubt in those days of the club’s Scottish roots. In fact they were proud of the fact. Some of the more ‘active ‘ support carried the Scottish Lion Rampant. Why are you frantically trying to deny the Scottish connection? Embarrassment? Racism? Just to remind you:’We fear no foe’ in Scots Gaelic (ná bí eaglach roimh namhaid ) ffs is part of the caledonian connection. As is the Scottish Lion and dark blue original strip. Accept it and get on with supporting the English team with the best Scottish roots and stop trying to deny your club’s proud history.
Thanks Mikey: the club isn’t ‘mine’, I’ve no attachment to Millwall at all. Your “Embarrassment? Racism?” queries are peculiar.
These aren’t my origins of surnames; they are found on Google, which I have no influence over.
Please note Richard Edmunds’ extensive comment above, where he suggests more of an Irish influence, players who originated on the Emerald Isle coming to London via Scotland.
Further, http://www.millwall-history.org.uk/origins.htm suggests the Scottish influence is more imagined than fact.
Excellent myth-busting! Interesting and convincing.
Just, on the names of the 1885 team, there seems to me actually to be quite a high proportion of Scottish names: Reekie, Crawford, and Syme are all common Lowland Scots names, Gunn is a major Highland clan.
I note that Chairman Murray-Leslie was an Irishman and there are many Murrays in Ireland, but it’s one of the commonest Scottish Highland names of all, and Leslie is a big name in the South.
I’ve never heard the name Hean. If I had to put money on English, Scots or Irish I’d go for Irish, but it could easily be a rarer Scots name or from an area I don’t know well.
Dr. William Murray-Leslie is frequently cited an being an “Irish internationalist”.
The following website is extremely accurate in listing every IFA player who represented Ireland from 1880 (Northern Ireland after 1921) and there is no mention of any Murray-Leslie, so can we scotch (sorry) that myth:
https://nifootball.blogspot.com/
And as P.Graham noted earlier, Murray-Leslie was from Ross-shire and so could not have represented Ireland, since the sole qualifying criterion in those days was to have been born on the island – residence or ancestry were insufficient.
The blue Millwall Rovers adopted originally was taken from the blue contained in the Scottish flag I believe. This was in recognition to the origin of a number of founders from north of the border
Thanks David. That may be the case, but why adopt navy blue rather than azure, the correct colour in the Scottish flag, which is far more vivid?
In the early days they even played in red & white stripes, I can only imagine the changes in the amateur days the chosen strip would be the cheapest one available. The local press in the late 1890s referred to them as the ‘Dark Blues’. However, blue, (navy if you like) was used until Charlie Hewitt became manager in 1936 who altered the colour of the shirt to royal blue. Since then there has been a few shades of the blue worn and sometime early in this century the ‘Dundee Blue’ came into focus for whatever reason.
I started with the list pf names near the top of the thread; and wondered about the ‘Scottish-sounding’ comment.
So I had a closer look one by one, and came up with the following possible/probable Scottish connections
( I played close attention to those mentioned in Richard Edmund’s piece )
———–
UNLESS STATED, all info is from 1881 Scottish census, looking at ages between 15 and 25
———————————————————————
( here in 1871 )
HEAN DUNCAN 19-y-o of 11 SHEPHERDS LOAN, DUNDEE
and Duncan’s brother
HEAN DAVID 8
OLIVER GEORGE 15 of FYVIE ABERDEENHIRE
REEKIE is a Fife name and there are many J Reekies, but none in Aberdeenshire or Angus
[ There is a family HOLOHAN in Angus, but no Patrick ]
But, after reading on in the article, and looking harder, I found this BIRTH –
HOULLICHAN PATRICK was born in 1857 in DUNDEE SECOND DISTRICT
( and in 1871 census, as he had already gone south by 1881 ) –
HOOLAGHAN PATRICK 15 of OLD MONKLAND LANARKSHIRE
OWEN E has me stuck – Welsh ?
GUNN is a N of Scotland name, but is sufficiently common to be found throught Scotland
( In 1861 ), we have
GUNN WILLIAM 9 in LEITH
( In 1871 ), we have his sister
GUNN ALICE C 0 in LEITH, with parents Daniel & Anne
JESSUP could be JESSOP –
JESSOP THOMAS 18 of ST NICHOLAS, ABERDEEN
POTTER – could Joe be George ? –
POTTER GEO 18 of ST PETER DUNDEE, ANGUS
NORTHWOOD – none in Scotland
ROWLAND – not uncommon, but none in Aberdeenshire or Angus
CRAWFORD JAMES 21 of ST CLEMENT DUNDEE ANGUS
BUTLER – common name, but only Harry/Henry is
BUTLER HENRY 16 of BRIDGETON LANARKSHIRE
SYME GEORGE 18 of FRASERBURGH ABERDEENSHIRE
————–
I think that there is sufficient closeness, and in particular to Richard Edmund’s story, to establish the Scottish connection.
My own interest is with my great-uncle John Robertson, who was an apprentice tinsmith in Aberdeen, then went to Mortons in Millwall.
Family lore has him as one of your founder members of Millwall FC, but I would like confirmation.
John returned to Aberdeen, set up his own tin can factory.
He was very involved in Aberdeen FC, joining the board and becoming chairman in the 1930s.
Thanks again, Peter. Holohan and Hean, if indeed names matching some from Dundee, could well be of Irish background, as the city had a huge influx of Irish workers which came in the 19th century to work in the Jute industry.
I can’t offer any definitive information, but refer back to http://www.millwall-history.org.uk/origins.htm, ‘Origins of Millwall’, where strong Scottish connections are comprehensively debunked.
Mainly, it was the Millwall/Dundee connection which I was, and am, sceptical about.
The Heans were born in Longforgan which is just west of Perth, as were their parents
Six of the family worked in the jute industry.
There are other Heans, all in the east of Scotland, and none with Irish ancestry
The Holohans/Houllichans/Hoolaghans/etc parents were both Irish, as are all other spelling varients
You may see the variety of spellings on the 1851 Scottish census ( there are very few in England )
The ‘clan’ generally remained in the west of Scotland as coal miners, apart from the aforementioned Patrick.
Frpm The Scotsman newspaper 1935 –
” ABERDEEN F C CHAIRMAN
Death of Mr John Robertson
Mr John Robertson, chairman of the Aberdeen Football Club died yesterday……aged 71. …..Mr Robertson after a period spent in London, started business as a tinsmith in Aberdeen 40 years ago……It was while he was in London that Mr Robertson’s interest in football led to his becoming one of the original members of the Millwall Athletic Football Club. In 1914 he joined the board of directors of Aberdeen Football Club, and in 1930 he was appointed chairman, a post he continued to hold until his death. ….”
I am taking this statement to be true, that John Robertson WAS an original member of Millwall. If anyone doubts this, then it is up to them to produce the hard evidence to the contrary. I have a copy of the newspaper article should anyone want it.